Thursday, February 02, 2006

"The God Who Wasn't There"


Lately some of my fellow Masons and I have been having online conversations with a Southern Baptist minister from Kentucky who maintains the Bible should be taken literally in all matters. Even when presented obvious Biblical contradictions, Pastor Josh Buice cannot see them.

The conversations can be found on Pastor Josh's blog, and also at this link on The Burning Taper.

One of the more recent questions asked him to explain why most of the "gods" that pre-dated Jesus — Osiris/Horus, Krishna, Mithra, Tammuz, Zoroaster, et al — were so similar in their characteristics to Jesus. They were born of virgins, some on December 25, had disciples, worked miracles, and were killed by being hung from trees. They were all resurrected.

Pastor Josh's only response was to ask if there were any eyewitnesses to these accounts, not realizing that no one was claiming these early gods existed, only that the stories had existed. Josh appears to be somewhat of a literalist.

Another fundamentalist Christian was faced with the same questions. Brian Fleming went looking for Jesus, he said, and the result was his film, The God Who Wasn't There.

A promotional page for the film, which was released in 2005, says:
The movie that has been astounding audiences in theaters around the world is now available on a high-quality, feature-packed DVD.

In this provocative, critically acclaimed documentary, you will discover:
  • The early founders of Christianity seem wholly unaware of the idea of a human Jesus

  • The Jesus of the Gospels bears a striking resemblance to other ancient heroes and the figureheads of pagan savior cults

  • Contemporary Christians are largely ignorant of the origins of their religion

  • Fundamentalism is as strong today as it ever has been, with an alarming 44% of Americans believing Jesus will return to earth in their lifetimes

  • And God simply isn't there

Dazzling motion graphics and a sweeping soundtrack propel this uncompromising and taboo-shattering documentary that Newsweek says "irreverently lays out the case that Jesus Christ never existed."

The God Who Wasn't There includes provocative interviews with:
  • Sam Harris, PEN Award-winning author of The End of Faith

  • Robert M. Price, Jesus Seminar fellow and author of The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man

  • Alan Dundes, Professor of Folklore at the University of California at Berkeley

  • Richard Carrier, historian and author of Sense and Goodness Without God

  • Barbara & David P. Mikkelson, authors of the Urban Legends Reference Pages at snopes.com

  • And many others

Mary and I have not yet seen this film, but have ordered it and eagerly await its arrival.

View the trailer and clips of The God Who Wasn't There.

View the original press release.

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3 comments:

  1. Very good article. I will also order the film.

    Onanite

    ReplyDelete
  2. Widow’s Son,

    It would help if you quoted people within their context. In my response toward other “so called” Jesus traditions – I was posting my questions toward these traditions, cults, and heresies in order to show you their frail foundation. You see, none of these cults or religious movements have true substantiated eye witness accounts, past martyrs, validated religious documentation, or present day martyrs. When was the last time you heard of someone dying for Tammuz or Zoroaster? It just does not happen!

    Secondly, regarding this perverted movie, The God Who Wasn't There – I would like to address the comments in order.

    1. The early founders of Christianity seem wholly unaware of the idea of a human Jesus

    Response: The early Christians seemed more aware of His human existence than His deity! Why do you think many were shocked when He rose from the dead?

    2. The Jesus of the Gospels bears a striking resemblance to other ancient heroes and the figureheads of pagan savior cults

    Response: The devil is a thief, counterfeit, and the great deceiver of mankind. What do you think he will do in his attempt to sway and deceive people? It is natural for other legends to pop up throughout other cultures and people groups – that is what the devil is expected to do. And obviously he has swayed you into believing his lie along with these other people from these specific cultures.

    3. Contemporary Christians are largely ignorant of the origins of their religion

    Response: I disagree wholeheartedly! If I recall, all but one of the disciples were martyred for preaching the resurrected Christ! It seems that they understood who founded their movement. Secondly, following the expansion of Rome in the early Church movement, the Jews spread out throughout the Roman empire and they preached Jesus Christ. That is why the message has stood the test of time, because throughout history people knew who the movement was founded upon – Christ Jesus. Today, within the true church, you will find the majority of people understand their religion was founded upon Jesus Christ. They may not be able to provide a historical or geographical lesson on the issue – but they do know that Jesus was born of a virgin, lived a sinless perfect life, died upon the cross, and rose from the dead.

    4. Fundamentalism is as strong today as it ever has been, with an alarming 44% of Americans believing Jesus will return to earth in their lifetimes

    Response: It should be noted – Christ will return, but we don’t know when. The Bible tells us to be ready rather than get ready. So, it is very natural to expect His return in our lifetime. The times in which we live also indicate the dawning of the last days as well.

    5. And God simply isn't there

    Response: I will allow the Holy Scriptures speak and properly address this point.

    Psalm 53:1 “The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God.”

    Widow’s Son, in order to disprove the Bible, Christianity, Christ Jesus, the ministry of the Apostle Paul – you will need to present true and validated evidence rather than quoting an Atheist. Try considering the truth of Holy Scripture and the love of God for yourself rather than allowing these other people do the work for you.

    Josh Buice
    For the glory of my God and Savior – Jesus Christ

    ReplyDelete
  3. Pastor Josh said: In my response toward other “so called” Jesus traditions – I was posting my questions toward these traditions, cults, and heresies in order to show you their frail foundation. You see, none of these cults or religious movements have true substantiated eye witness accounts, past martyrs, validated religious documentation, or present day martyrs. When was the last time you heard of someone dying for Tammuz or Zoroaster? It just does not happen!

    I say: I have not been convinced eyewitness accounts were true. The documents that provide the eyewitness accounts are the same documents that provide the event being witnessed. Where are the third-party witnesses?

    Martyrs don't make what they're dying for true, or "right"? People died for the Catholic Church in the Dark and Middle Ages. People died for Hitler. Giordano Bruno and Jacques de Molay died for their beliefs. A willingness to die for something doesn't mean what they're dying for is Truth.

    You said: Secondly, regarding this perverted movie, The God Who Wasn't There – I would like to address the comments in order.

    I say: The comments were part of the movie's promotional webpage, not my comments. I haven't seen the movie. I simply publicized its existence, because I find it interesting.

    Have you seen it, or are you judging it "perverse" because it disagrees with your pre-conceived opinions, er, I mean beliefs?

    You said: The devil is a thief, counterfeit, and the great deceiver of mankind. What do you think he will do in his attempt to sway and deceive people? It is natural for other legends to pop up throughout other cultures and people groups – that is what the devil is expected to do. And obviously he has swayed you into believing his lie along with these other people from these specific cultures.

    I say: Oh, this is just silly, Josh. The Devil created false legends in other cultures, and before the fact, to sway and deceive people? Did he know ahead of time that Jesus's ministry was scheduled to kick-off in Judea in 30 AD, say around 10 a.m. on March 1? Or did, after the fact, the Devil build a time machine and go back to Egypt several thousand years earlier to deceive the ignorant pyramid-builders? And why would God allow such? That's your best response to the queston of why the "FACTS" about Jesus so closely resemble god-stories that pre-date Him by hundreds or thousands of years?

    You said: If I recall, all but one of the disciples were martyred for preaching the resurrected Christ! It seems that they understood who founded their movement. Secondly, following the expansion of Rome in the early Church movement, the Jews spread out throughout the Roman empire and they preached Jesus Christ. That is why the message has stood the test of time, because throughout history people knew who the movement was founded upon – Christ Jesus. Today, within the true church, you will find the majority of people understand their religion was founded upon Jesus Christ. They may not be able to provide a historical or geographical lesson on the issue – but they do know that Jesus was born of a virgin, lived a sinless perfect life, died upon the cross, and rose from the dead.

    I say: Not everyone, not even all Christians, believe you represent the "true church." Many Christians view the Baptist version taught by Baptist ministers trained in Baptist seminaries to be a perversion of the Word. Are they all incorrect while you, Pastor Josh, and those who think exactly like you do, hold the Truth in your hands?

    You quoted from the movie promotional page: "And God simply isn't there."

    You then said: I will allow the Holy Scriptures to speak and properly address this point. Psalm 53:1 “The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God.” Widow’s Son, in order to disprove the Bible, Christianity, Christ Jesus, the ministry of the Apostle Paul – you will need to present true and validated evidence rather than quoting an Atheist. Try considering the truth of Holy Scripture and the love of God for yourself rather than allowing these other people do the work for you.

    I Say: First, as a literalist, you realize that you're now in imminent danger of hellfire, since apparently you're calling me a fool, something Jesus warned against. Very unchristian of you. :)

    Secondly, again... you're attacking me as the source of comments that were simply quotations from the movie's promotional page. I never said there was no God. In fact, I've said several times that I believe there is a God.

    You signed your comments: Josh Buice, For the glory of my God and Savior – Jesus Christ

    I say: Do you really think Jesus and God enjoy all the "glory" you keep throwing their way? Do they really want and/or need all this adoration 24/7? If so, why do you think that is?

    May the Great Architect of the Universe smile His blessings upon you!


    — The Widow's Son

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